In looking around at "after Mormonism" sites and discussions, I've come across some disturbing stuff and admittedly gotten a little scared and wanted to curl up, back into my good-Mormon-gal ball in the corner; full activity and effort into the Church.
So many people seem to leave the Church and jump into all the stuff we aren't supposed to do as members in good standing.
I never liked alcohol (the taste or its effects), hated the idea of any partner of mine looking at or watching pornography, etc. My hatred of those things was actually the driving force in me "coming back" to church in the first place. I found my perfect man and we're on the same page with these things. There's a lot of good in the Church's teachings that I don't ever want to forget or let go of.
However, there are some things that the Church pushes, that I believe in, but will have a harder time living them if I'm not being "held accountable." Swearing and modesty, for example. I've never had the cleanest mouth or been a sweet girl, by nature. Keeping my language clean is something I want to continue to strive for (not that anyone was ever checking my language, but it was the influence of the Church that changed my language almost 7 years ago.) And modesty - I totally appreciate this idea, but the freedom of wearing tank tops and not having to find knee-length shorts is very appealing to me, too. I'm not about to have my butt hanging out all summer long, don't get me wrong, but the LDS wardrobe can be limiting to certain body types. The day that I went through the temple and started wearing garments, we went shopping for me to get some new shirts that would fit better with my new underwear. I literally cried when I realized how limiting that would be. I got over it and have been totally satisfied, for the most part, with my options, especially because I really do appreciate modesty. But it will be a nice thing not to worry about anymore.
I'm not getting this point across very clearly. I guess all I'm trying to say is that outside the Church's influence, I hope Husband and I can find a good balance of the old ideals and the new freedom. I totally intend to return to my old loves of frappucinos and sweetened iced tea, but more as treats as habits (just like soda is to me now.) I look forward to not worrying about whether my g-top is poking out of the top of my pretty-darn-but-not-quite-modest-enough shirt. Pornography will never have a place in my marriage. Alcohol? Maybe. Neither of us like the taste, but I think we can both appreciate, and are both a bit tempted by, the idea of just light drinking, at his company functions or whatever. The last time either of us drank alcohol was when we were teenagers, and the sole purpose was to get wasted and be idiots. I'm sure as adults, it would be a bit different.
Whatever we do in those regards, I would like for it to only be on terms we're both comfortable with. I won't do anything he doesn't like and he'll show the same respect to me.
I think we might enjoy some iced tea tonight, actually. He's never tried it and I loved drinking it before. Toasting to the new life ahead. We're such rebels.
Thursday, October 27, 2011
Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Closer to two feet out
I'm a bit sick this week. I don't want my girls to get it, but if my 2 year old does get it, at least I have an excuse to not go to church.
But I am getting ever-closer to not needing an excuse, ever-closer to not caring what they all think of me because more and more, their opinions don't hold a lot of value to me.
We've been doing a lot of reading on Pure Mormonism. A lot of interesting information and viewpoints.
I don't give the guy full credibility for multiple reasons, but a lot of what he says resonates with me. On the other hand, this guy's thrown another complicated layer into my search for just what I believe about this church, from its beginning, to now. I agree with what he has to say about the current church, but I don't know that I agree with his belief in the purely restored church in the first place - that Joseph Smith was a prophet, etc.
If I had to put my name on a belief as of today, I would say that I believe that Joseph Smith had some inspiration to write a really great book with wonderful principles and ideas in it, and even had some other great ideas.
It gets tricky though with the theories that documents have been altered. How can we possibly believe in any document or record? How can we believe anything that we didn't see for ourselves or feel for ourselves? I mean, for pete's sake, this Rock guy believes that Joseph Smith didn't actually practice polygamy. His reasoning all seems to be sound - but that's even more disturbing to me. What the hell are we supposed to believe about something like that? Either way you look at it, someone dramatically altered records; someone(s) is or has lied a lot to promote polygamy - that JS did it or that he did not.
So scratch what I said up there. If I had to say what I believe in....I'd say "follow your heart. Treat people well. Model your life after people who were and are peaceful and loving. Put value on anything or anyone who promotes good things." I would include the Book of Mormon in that category. The Bible, so far as it makes any sense. And lots of other things that I hope to discover. This entry from Rock really resonated with Husband and me both. This concept (not necessarily the entire post, since it relates back to JS) just makes sense to me, through and through.
I'm getting more comfortable with the idea that I don't have to know anything for sure. And because I don't know anything for sure, I don't feel compelled to attend to or adhere to the teachings, practices, and policies of an institution that claims to be the one and only truth and pushes strict obedience....yet is a pretty shady institution itself. One thing I feel I'm getting more sure of is that this church does not sit right with me.
I think I'm done. With the Church. At least for now. I'll continue to study and experience and feel things out, but I highly doubt that my heart will lead me back to the LDS Church, with all its authority and policies that don't make sense.
Things making sense. That's what all this has been about. So much of what I've learned and followed has never made sense to me, but you are taught to "follow the Prophet," so you swallow it and carry on, thinking that it doesn't need to make sense. That's changing for me, a lot. Things can make sense. And maybe I could apply this as a strong member of the Church, too - study out things that don't make sense...but that's what I've been doing, and this is where it got me. I've found out all kinds of things about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, enough of which are verifiable - enough to make me want nothing to do with it.
But I am getting ever-closer to not needing an excuse, ever-closer to not caring what they all think of me because more and more, their opinions don't hold a lot of value to me.
We've been doing a lot of reading on Pure Mormonism. A lot of interesting information and viewpoints.
I don't give the guy full credibility for multiple reasons, but a lot of what he says resonates with me. On the other hand, this guy's thrown another complicated layer into my search for just what I believe about this church, from its beginning, to now. I agree with what he has to say about the current church, but I don't know that I agree with his belief in the purely restored church in the first place - that Joseph Smith was a prophet, etc.
If I had to put my name on a belief as of today, I would say that I believe that Joseph Smith had some inspiration to write a really great book with wonderful principles and ideas in it, and even had some other great ideas.
It gets tricky though with the theories that documents have been altered. How can we possibly believe in any document or record? How can we believe anything that we didn't see for ourselves or feel for ourselves? I mean, for pete's sake, this Rock guy believes that Joseph Smith didn't actually practice polygamy. His reasoning all seems to be sound - but that's even more disturbing to me. What the hell are we supposed to believe about something like that? Either way you look at it, someone dramatically altered records; someone(s) is or has lied a lot to promote polygamy - that JS did it or that he did not.
So scratch what I said up there. If I had to say what I believe in....I'd say "follow your heart. Treat people well. Model your life after people who were and are peaceful and loving. Put value on anything or anyone who promotes good things." I would include the Book of Mormon in that category. The Bible, so far as it makes any sense. And lots of other things that I hope to discover. This entry from Rock really resonated with Husband and me both. This concept (not necessarily the entire post, since it relates back to JS) just makes sense to me, through and through.
I'm getting more comfortable with the idea that I don't have to know anything for sure. And because I don't know anything for sure, I don't feel compelled to attend to or adhere to the teachings, practices, and policies of an institution that claims to be the one and only truth and pushes strict obedience....yet is a pretty shady institution itself. One thing I feel I'm getting more sure of is that this church does not sit right with me.
I think I'm done. With the Church. At least for now. I'll continue to study and experience and feel things out, but I highly doubt that my heart will lead me back to the LDS Church, with all its authority and policies that don't make sense.
Things making sense. That's what all this has been about. So much of what I've learned and followed has never made sense to me, but you are taught to "follow the Prophet," so you swallow it and carry on, thinking that it doesn't need to make sense. That's changing for me, a lot. Things can make sense. And maybe I could apply this as a strong member of the Church, too - study out things that don't make sense...but that's what I've been doing, and this is where it got me. I've found out all kinds of things about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, enough of which are verifiable - enough to make me want nothing to do with it.
Friday, October 21, 2011
Been a bit.
Two weeks ago last night, we were packing for a weekend away with Husband's family, to attend his brother's sealing to his wife and baby, when we found out that my dad had a heart attack and passed away.
My relationship with my dad could be the source of an entire essay by itself, except that I had pretty much become complacent with it. He was my dad, so there's automatically weight to his death, but we were not close and he was, by no means, part of my daily, weekly, or even monthly life. We spoke, at best, about 3 times a year, and saw each other even less than that. I'll miss him, but his death hasn't affected me very much. I do think that maybe something is missing in me - some integral part that has to do with attachment and grieving - but I don't know. And if I really am missing some part or quality, I suppose I prefer it that way.
Anyway. All of that interrupted life for a bit. Traveling, funeral, getting home and getting back into the swing of things.
Going to my b-i-l's sealing, we were both looking at it as possibly the last time that we'd ever enter the temple. I tried to make it a meaningful experience...somehow. I wanted to "take it all in," or take some time to meditate, but there's only so much you can do in a sealing ceremony. Regardless, it was the same experience as usual - nothing about the whole thing or my environment spoke to me. It was great to see our family so happy, and to see them fulfilling something that was important to them and brought them closer. And that was it. Except for the part where, as we sat in the chapel, I looked around at all the faces of former prophets/presidents of the church and thought "How many of you perpetuated lies? What kind of men are you really?" Overall, I found that my experience was the same as it has been in the past - that there isn't anything to take in. Again, is there something missing in me? Or am I just made to feel that way, in this case, by the institution?
When we found out that my dad died, I think both of us wondered if it would change our thoughts and feelings about anything - that the reality of someone close to us passing from this world to the next would shake us up and take a harder look at our beliefs. It didn't change anything for me. Which made me realize that I have always just kind of thought that I would be with my family forever, regardless of how righteous we all are (regardless of what the Church teaches). My family, on the other hand - I think it's different for them. My sister is taking it particularly hard, and it wouldn't be fair for me to say why, but I wonder if she's considering the fact that he'd been excommunicated and never had those blessings restored. I wonder if that's playing a role in her heartbreak.
Husband found a great blog yesterday. I've been reading some of it. The post I read today particularly spoke to me, about how I feel about researching all of this. What it comes down to for me is this: it's hard to believe any of the historical documents, because you just can't prove what's true or not. There's no way of knowing, unless I had witnessed events, people's characters, conversations, etc. for myself.
So all I can do is follow what I feel is right. And the Church isn't it. Still a hard pill to get down, though, with such "TBM"s (oh boy, I'm among the acronym users now) making up my family, and having been ingrained in this lifestyle so long.
Although, to my surprise, my two strong, stalwart, active brothers reacted very calmly and lovingly to our questions and doubts. We had very good conversations with both of them during our get-together for dad's funeral. I don't know that they'd be very bothersome if we chose a different route. It was very refreshing and so much less dramatic than talking to my mom or sister about it (all of this I failed to write about because of my dad dying, etc. But my sister ended up telling my brothers, "for moral support," which pissed me off pretty well. Then she spilled the beans to my mom when she tried to say "I have a friend having some doubts." My mom guessed who the friend was and my sister proceeded to spew.) All of that doesn't matter anymore - it's kind of nice to have it in the open, but I would have rather kept it from every single one of them. A few days ago, though, I realized that all I have to say to any of them when they bring it up is: "I don't want to talk about that." We don't have to talk about it. They'll want to because they'll assume (correctly) that we're not pursuing the LDS ideal, but they'll be respectful and not talk about it when we say we don't want to. It's perfect. Just leave the topic alone, and we can go on being a happy family without differences. I'm good with that.
My relationship with my dad could be the source of an entire essay by itself, except that I had pretty much become complacent with it. He was my dad, so there's automatically weight to his death, but we were not close and he was, by no means, part of my daily, weekly, or even monthly life. We spoke, at best, about 3 times a year, and saw each other even less than that. I'll miss him, but his death hasn't affected me very much. I do think that maybe something is missing in me - some integral part that has to do with attachment and grieving - but I don't know. And if I really am missing some part or quality, I suppose I prefer it that way.
Anyway. All of that interrupted life for a bit. Traveling, funeral, getting home and getting back into the swing of things.
Going to my b-i-l's sealing, we were both looking at it as possibly the last time that we'd ever enter the temple. I tried to make it a meaningful experience...somehow. I wanted to "take it all in," or take some time to meditate, but there's only so much you can do in a sealing ceremony. Regardless, it was the same experience as usual - nothing about the whole thing or my environment spoke to me. It was great to see our family so happy, and to see them fulfilling something that was important to them and brought them closer. And that was it. Except for the part where, as we sat in the chapel, I looked around at all the faces of former prophets/presidents of the church and thought "How many of you perpetuated lies? What kind of men are you really?" Overall, I found that my experience was the same as it has been in the past - that there isn't anything to take in. Again, is there something missing in me? Or am I just made to feel that way, in this case, by the institution?
When we found out that my dad died, I think both of us wondered if it would change our thoughts and feelings about anything - that the reality of someone close to us passing from this world to the next would shake us up and take a harder look at our beliefs. It didn't change anything for me. Which made me realize that I have always just kind of thought that I would be with my family forever, regardless of how righteous we all are (regardless of what the Church teaches). My family, on the other hand - I think it's different for them. My sister is taking it particularly hard, and it wouldn't be fair for me to say why, but I wonder if she's considering the fact that he'd been excommunicated and never had those blessings restored. I wonder if that's playing a role in her heartbreak.
Husband found a great blog yesterday. I've been reading some of it. The post I read today particularly spoke to me, about how I feel about researching all of this. What it comes down to for me is this: it's hard to believe any of the historical documents, because you just can't prove what's true or not. There's no way of knowing, unless I had witnessed events, people's characters, conversations, etc. for myself.
So all I can do is follow what I feel is right. And the Church isn't it. Still a hard pill to get down, though, with such "TBM"s (oh boy, I'm among the acronym users now) making up my family, and having been ingrained in this lifestyle so long.
Although, to my surprise, my two strong, stalwart, active brothers reacted very calmly and lovingly to our questions and doubts. We had very good conversations with both of them during our get-together for dad's funeral. I don't know that they'd be very bothersome if we chose a different route. It was very refreshing and so much less dramatic than talking to my mom or sister about it (all of this I failed to write about because of my dad dying, etc. But my sister ended up telling my brothers, "for moral support," which pissed me off pretty well. Then she spilled the beans to my mom when she tried to say "I have a friend having some doubts." My mom guessed who the friend was and my sister proceeded to spew.) All of that doesn't matter anymore - it's kind of nice to have it in the open, but I would have rather kept it from every single one of them. A few days ago, though, I realized that all I have to say to any of them when they bring it up is: "I don't want to talk about that." We don't have to talk about it. They'll want to because they'll assume (correctly) that we're not pursuing the LDS ideal, but they'll be respectful and not talk about it when we say we don't want to. It's perfect. Just leave the topic alone, and we can go on being a happy family without differences. I'm good with that.
Friday, September 30, 2011
Integrity, letter to my sister
The reason I told my sister what was going on with me and my testimony the other day is because her husband is an inactive member. Over the past couple of years, he's tried a little harder and was going to church with his family more often, but then again within the last, I don't know, 6 months, he's had a hard time making it because of a demanding and varying work schedule. I don't know their situation exactly. But recently, he told my sister that he wasn't going to go to church anymore.
To my sister who is completely and totally all in, and who firmly believes that he will take her and their children to the temple someday, that news isn't sitting well with her. She was talking to me about it on Tuesday, and I just couldn't hold my tongue. Well, actually, that's exactly what I was doing. I didn't have anything to say that she wanted to hear, so I sat there silently. She finally said, "Hello? Are you there? What are you thinking about all of this?" I chuckled a bit and said, "Ahhhh, you don't want to know what I'm thinking." But I let it rip anyway. At the end of the conversation, I asked her not to tell anyone else in our family about it. So far I haven't heard from anyone else, but it will surprise me if she can keep it to herself without trying to round up the family to do a special fast for Husband and me.
For example, my mom called last night (the first thing I thought when I saw her name on my phone was that my sister had spilled the beans) to tell me that my family's fasting for my sister's husband (above) this weekend. "Okay. For what, exactly?" "That he'll gain a testimony...that he'll have a desire to take his family to the temple. I don't know, whatever you want to make it for." And then she went on to tell me that my brother, the last remaining of my siblings who isn't fully active and temple worthy, is getting the Priesthood next weekend. She said some more about the next few steps and then they (he and his family) can go to the temple, but I wasn't listening completely because I suddenly felt sick.
My mom herself just became active in the last few years, after years and years (and, I think, excommunication, but I don't really know her story completely). She wasn't at my sealing to my husband or my oldest brother's sealing. She barely got her recommend in time to go to my little sister's sealing in late 2009. Now my brother (who went through a long period of drugs, alcoholism, and just a crummy life in general) is finally getting close to going to the temple, and....I'm falling off the wagon.
I literally felt sick to my stomach. My heart breaks for my family, but what am I supposed to do? Live a lie, for their sake? I can't.
I used to wonder with gay people how it was that being "out" was worth the cost of giving up their families (in those cases where their families reacted badly). I kind of get it now.
Being a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a big commitment, and it permeates every facet of your life. And for me, it's also an all-in or all-out organization. There are those known as "buffet Mormons" who pick up what they like and don't live the rest of it. I thought about doing that, but I can't. Just like I can't sit on the phone and listen to my sister say that she knows her husband can't be happy and have peace unless he embraces the Church and gains a testimony, I can't sit through church meetings where much of the same kinds of things are said. It comes down to integrity. I will be miserable if I have to force myself to participate in callings and meetings, pretending to believe in something that I don't. And that is no life to live. So I get why gay people sacrifice everything. I can't say I understand homosexuality, but man, my heart goes out to them.
Anyway, I pretty much gave my sister the impression the other day that I was just DONE with the Church altogether and I got pretty fired up. Even though I do feel like, in my heart, I know how this is going to end, I still need to finish the research. I still need to study it out and do a lot more thinking. And I wanted to put her at ease a little bit - especially because of how she feels about the current situation with her husband - so I wrote her this email today:
Hey (my sister).
I'm sorry that I let you know what's going on with me - on top of how you feel about (brother-in-law's) testimony, I'm sure it doesn't help to have my own (and Husband's) situation dumped on top of that stress.
To clarify though, and hopefully put you at ease a bit - the situation is this: I am studying the history of the Church, from multiple sources. From the start, I have given the Church the benefit of the doubt, because of course I want it to be true - if it's not, it uproots our entire lifestyle, and that would be a much harder route to take than the one we've previously followed of running from our doubts. I hate to think of the heartbreak it would cause my siblings, Mom, and (Husband's) family, who all believe so strongly - and who believe that we're lost to them (you) in the eternities if we fall away.
However, it may be the conclusion I come to, and I'll have to deal with that, as will everyone else. If I do choose to go inactive or leave the Church altogether, I will never make an attempt at changing anyone else's mind. I'm sorry for getting fired up about it with you the other day. I don't mean to be confrontational - I don't mean to argue with you or try to prove anything to you (I'm not even sure what I believe about what I'm finding,) but it is hard. Things aren't adding up and that has led to unhappiness and disappointment for me, and for (Husband.)
You should also know that at this point, the thing that is shaking my faith the most is not coming from anything close to anti-Mormon literature or sources. It's the practice of polygamy, which is acknowledged fully by the Church. I, like most members, have just tried to tell myself that I don't understand it, there must be reasons for it, I'll get it someday, etc. etc. and it doesn't really matter right now. So I disregarded my concerns with it and never looked into it. It only takes a little attention to the matter to see that it was not as simple or innocent as we're taught - which, really, we're not taught about it at all. I didn't know until maybe a year ago that Joseph Smith himself practiced polygamy, because the only wife that's ever mentioned in church is Emma. There are a lot of concerns about this to me - and I can only continue to justify the Church's position and explain things away to a certain extent. In my heart, I cannot agree with polygamy or what it did to people. I can't reconcile this doctrine with a Church that is so concerned with families staying together. I can't reconcile polygamy with the teaching that we are divine daughters of Heavenly Father, who loves us. I've considered the arguments that to be a woman in a polygamous relationship would be for the purpose of making that sister (and whichever sisters were sharing her husband) be completely obedient, humble, selfless, etc...but how does that fit with the teachings the Church has of how husbands and wives are supposed to work together as the heads of their family? How Jesus taught that husband and wife are supposed to become twain flesh and to cleave unto each other and none else? It's hard enough being married to one person - a husband cannot fill his role to multiple wives.
Anyway, I'm going on a tangent there, but my point is to tell you that my source of discontent and distrust is not springing from outside sources. My major problem is with a doctrine and history of the Church. (Husband) has the same feelings, though with different doctrines. And if we just don't believe in what the Church teaches on multiple doctrines - what are we to do with that?
I'm open to suggestions. I'm very open to your point of view, but not necessarily your testimony - I will not rely on feelings alone when coming to a conclusion, especially the feelings of someone else. I hope that you're going to read Rough Stone Rolling too, so we can discuss it together. I will say that unless you are looking at the same information that I am, we don't have anything to discuss.
I haven't made a decision yet and won't until I've had adequate time to research, meditate, "study it out in my mind" and give prayerful consideration as to whether I believe these things to be true or not - I have a lot of reading and thinking to do. Please don't worry about me or my family. We'll do what's right for us and follow what we believe to be true.
I love you,
(Me)
To my sister who is completely and totally all in, and who firmly believes that he will take her and their children to the temple someday, that news isn't sitting well with her. She was talking to me about it on Tuesday, and I just couldn't hold my tongue. Well, actually, that's exactly what I was doing. I didn't have anything to say that she wanted to hear, so I sat there silently. She finally said, "Hello? Are you there? What are you thinking about all of this?" I chuckled a bit and said, "Ahhhh, you don't want to know what I'm thinking." But I let it rip anyway. At the end of the conversation, I asked her not to tell anyone else in our family about it. So far I haven't heard from anyone else, but it will surprise me if she can keep it to herself without trying to round up the family to do a special fast for Husband and me.
For example, my mom called last night (the first thing I thought when I saw her name on my phone was that my sister had spilled the beans) to tell me that my family's fasting for my sister's husband (above) this weekend. "Okay. For what, exactly?" "That he'll gain a testimony...that he'll have a desire to take his family to the temple. I don't know, whatever you want to make it for." And then she went on to tell me that my brother, the last remaining of my siblings who isn't fully active and temple worthy, is getting the Priesthood next weekend. She said some more about the next few steps and then they (he and his family) can go to the temple, but I wasn't listening completely because I suddenly felt sick.
My mom herself just became active in the last few years, after years and years (and, I think, excommunication, but I don't really know her story completely). She wasn't at my sealing to my husband or my oldest brother's sealing. She barely got her recommend in time to go to my little sister's sealing in late 2009. Now my brother (who went through a long period of drugs, alcoholism, and just a crummy life in general) is finally getting close to going to the temple, and....I'm falling off the wagon.
I literally felt sick to my stomach. My heart breaks for my family, but what am I supposed to do? Live a lie, for their sake? I can't.
I used to wonder with gay people how it was that being "out" was worth the cost of giving up their families (in those cases where their families reacted badly). I kind of get it now.
Being a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a big commitment, and it permeates every facet of your life. And for me, it's also an all-in or all-out organization. There are those known as "buffet Mormons" who pick up what they like and don't live the rest of it. I thought about doing that, but I can't. Just like I can't sit on the phone and listen to my sister say that she knows her husband can't be happy and have peace unless he embraces the Church and gains a testimony, I can't sit through church meetings where much of the same kinds of things are said. It comes down to integrity. I will be miserable if I have to force myself to participate in callings and meetings, pretending to believe in something that I don't. And that is no life to live. So I get why gay people sacrifice everything. I can't say I understand homosexuality, but man, my heart goes out to them.
Anyway, I pretty much gave my sister the impression the other day that I was just DONE with the Church altogether and I got pretty fired up. Even though I do feel like, in my heart, I know how this is going to end, I still need to finish the research. I still need to study it out and do a lot more thinking. And I wanted to put her at ease a little bit - especially because of how she feels about the current situation with her husband - so I wrote her this email today:
Hey (my sister).
I'm sorry that I let you know what's going on with me - on top of how you feel about (brother-in-law's) testimony, I'm sure it doesn't help to have my own (and Husband's) situation dumped on top of that stress.
To clarify though, and hopefully put you at ease a bit - the situation is this: I am studying the history of the Church, from multiple sources. From the start, I have given the Church the benefit of the doubt, because of course I want it to be true - if it's not, it uproots our entire lifestyle, and that would be a much harder route to take than the one we've previously followed of running from our doubts. I hate to think of the heartbreak it would cause my siblings, Mom, and (Husband's) family, who all believe so strongly - and who believe that we're lost to them (you) in the eternities if we fall away.
However, it may be the conclusion I come to, and I'll have to deal with that, as will everyone else. If I do choose to go inactive or leave the Church altogether, I will never make an attempt at changing anyone else's mind. I'm sorry for getting fired up about it with you the other day. I don't mean to be confrontational - I don't mean to argue with you or try to prove anything to you (I'm not even sure what I believe about what I'm finding,) but it is hard. Things aren't adding up and that has led to unhappiness and disappointment for me, and for (Husband.)
You should also know that at this point, the thing that is shaking my faith the most is not coming from anything close to anti-Mormon literature or sources. It's the practice of polygamy, which is acknowledged fully by the Church. I, like most members, have just tried to tell myself that I don't understand it, there must be reasons for it, I'll get it someday, etc. etc. and it doesn't really matter right now. So I disregarded my concerns with it and never looked into it. It only takes a little attention to the matter to see that it was not as simple or innocent as we're taught - which, really, we're not taught about it at all. I didn't know until maybe a year ago that Joseph Smith himself practiced polygamy, because the only wife that's ever mentioned in church is Emma. There are a lot of concerns about this to me - and I can only continue to justify the Church's position and explain things away to a certain extent. In my heart, I cannot agree with polygamy or what it did to people. I can't reconcile this doctrine with a Church that is so concerned with families staying together. I can't reconcile polygamy with the teaching that we are divine daughters of Heavenly Father, who loves us. I've considered the arguments that to be a woman in a polygamous relationship would be for the purpose of making that sister (and whichever sisters were sharing her husband) be completely obedient, humble, selfless, etc...but how does that fit with the teachings the Church has of how husbands and wives are supposed to work together as the heads of their family? How Jesus taught that husband and wife are supposed to become twain flesh and to cleave unto each other and none else? It's hard enough being married to one person - a husband cannot fill his role to multiple wives.
Anyway, I'm going on a tangent there, but my point is to tell you that my source of discontent and distrust is not springing from outside sources. My major problem is with a doctrine and history of the Church. (Husband) has the same feelings, though with different doctrines. And if we just don't believe in what the Church teaches on multiple doctrines - what are we to do with that?
I'm open to suggestions. I'm very open to your point of view, but not necessarily your testimony - I will not rely on feelings alone when coming to a conclusion, especially the feelings of someone else. I hope that you're going to read Rough Stone Rolling too, so we can discuss it together. I will say that unless you are looking at the same information that I am, we don't have anything to discuss.
I haven't made a decision yet and won't until I've had adequate time to research, meditate, "study it out in my mind" and give prayerful consideration as to whether I believe these things to be true or not - I have a lot of reading and thinking to do. Please don't worry about me or my family. We'll do what's right for us and follow what we believe to be true.
I love you,
(Me)
Thursday, September 29, 2011
Changing my method
I've been thinking about the sources I'm getting my information from. Let's just go with the Church leaders' mindset for a minute: the adversary gets his grip on people. Let's say he got his grip on a few key people to come up with some "historical" documents, or to "quote" some historical documents - all in the name of destroying testimonies. I don't actually think this is the case, but I guess I'm just conditioned and trusting enough of the Church that I will concede that it's a possibility.
I highly doubt that I can get my hands on the Journal of Discourses, where Brigham Young is quoted saying so many things that make me want to disassociate myself with the Church. I can't get my hands on the journals of early members. (What I really wish I could do is go back in time, and get to know those early members for myself - especially JS.)
But I can do what I'd do if I were researching say, the Asian people. So here's my plan: no more crazed, hungry searches for information online. I'm going to read some actual books by people who have done real research, done the notations, gone through the hullabaloo of publishing. I know that still doesn't prove anything - but I don't have the means and resources to do the exhaustive digging it would require.
I got on the library's webpage and requested a few items. Hopefully they'll make it to our branch by tomorrow and I can start in.
I highly doubt that I can get my hands on the Journal of Discourses, where Brigham Young is quoted saying so many things that make me want to disassociate myself with the Church. I can't get my hands on the journals of early members. (What I really wish I could do is go back in time, and get to know those early members for myself - especially JS.)
But I can do what I'd do if I were researching say, the Asian people. So here's my plan: no more crazed, hungry searches for information online. I'm going to read some actual books by people who have done real research, done the notations, gone through the hullabaloo of publishing. I know that still doesn't prove anything - but I don't have the means and resources to do the exhaustive digging it would require.
I got on the library's webpage and requested a few items. Hopefully they'll make it to our branch by tomorrow and I can start in.
Wednesday, September 28, 2011
Consumption
I'm not sure what to think of the fact that all of this is all-consuming. It makes up probably 95% of my conversations with Husband. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I have a hard time getting back to sleep because my mind fixes on it. It's all I think about. I've had to tear myself away from reading and pondering to get any (much needed) house work done.
One thing about myself that I'm not sure what to think of is that I'm easily swayed in either direction. I'll read a well thought out and well written ex-Mormon statement and think, "Yeah! Exactly!" but then read a Mormon's well thought out and well written argument and I end up conceding that they have a point, too.
I have to consider that the information I'm finding is still all second-hand. They site references, but I don't have access to those references - and until I do, I can never really know that their reproductions are fair and accurate.
I keep thinking that while there were some terrible things that supposedly happened early in the Church's history and Joseph Smith and Brigham Young supposedly weren't fully the men they're made out to be by the Church - I keep thinking that still, the Church is good today. I can't understand what motivation there would be to deceive. The only thing I can think of is how devastating it would be for the millions of active, faithful members if they were to have everything that they live for shown to be false - or not even false necessarily, just not entirely true or honorable.
And I can say that no matter what positive light I come across that's shed on JS or the Church, it always goes back to the contradictions for me. The gospel teaches that God is unchanging - that his laws are eternal and that he won't ever give a commandment without preparing a way to follow it. Then why in the hell aren't we practicing polygamy? The United Order? Why has the temple ceremony changed so much? Not to mention that JS completely defied his Twelfth Article of Faith ("We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law") by practicing polygamy.
I think of how my story will be told by my sister in church when she's crying about it to the sisters in Relief Society. "She's reading all this anti-Mormon literature, all this supposed factual history about the church. I asked her when the last time she'd been to the temple was and she said it had been a long time - well of course! She isn't close to the Spirit anymore. The adversary had an open door and got his hands on her."
Does Satan have his grip on us (Husband and me?) Are we supposing that we know more than God by going with men's reasoning? No...not really. Just looking at history. Just looking at different accounts of the things we've been taught about. True accounts? Well, they are supposedly the accounts of past authorities, even presidents/prophets of the Church.
But even if not? Like I said, if I'm honest with myself about even the history that the Church provides, if I'm looking at the contradictions - I can't bring myself to explain it away or justify it enough to move past it. I can't give the benefit of the doubt anymore.
I go back and forth between thinking "I don't want to go to church," and "I will miss it soo much. It's familiar and comfortable. My 2-year old loves it. I don't want to deal with the contention that's inevitable from the current, all-in members. I don't want them to think what they will of us. It would be easier to just go, accepting that it's a man-made institution, not accepting any callings that would press me to bear testimony that I don't have. After all, it's a good reminder, a good pusher to be better, improve, never become sedentary."
But how can I go and listen to the innocent, completely faithful and illogical accounts of history? The regurgitated testimonies of everyone, ages 3 to 90? Church has already been making me grumpy for as long as I've been going (not always, no, sometimes it's good, but with all my new information I'm not sure I can go without getting pissed off about everything, at every turn.)
I suspect that it will just be a gradual falling away. Husband teaches Sunday school to some of the teenagers, so unless he goes and says "I'm done," he has to continue to go each Sunday, at least for the middle hour. With my calling, I don't have to be there.
What I dread is the confrontation. "We haven't seen you at church in a while." At which point, I can't stand to make excuses and lie about it. So I'll have to say...what? What's the best way to say politely and kindly that it's not for me and I won't be attending anymore? I don't want to open up discussions, I don't want to be worked at and filed away at.
Especially because my aim is not to convince anyone else of my feelings. I want them to understand, but by no means would I try to make them agree with me. If they're happy in that world, wonderful. Good for you. Don't talk to me too much and you'll be just fine.
Last night, I was exhausted by all this and decided that instead of talking to my husband about it in bed, I would just read one of my favorite books until I was tired enough to fall asleep. When I closed Jane Eyre and turned to my husband (who was reading more discussions about church history on his phone) he gave me his attention. I didn't say anything, but we both understand that all of this is emotionally and mentally exhausting. It's sad. It's also really sad to think about leaving this community, this church "family" we have behind. It's been such a major part of our lives, especially Husband's, as he grew up in it with "all in" parents. Anyway, he looked at me and said, "I love you. I'm glad I have you," meaning, I think, he's glad he has me to go through this with. I agreed whole-heartedly - going through this alone would be even harder. We've seen examples now where one spouse decided it was untrue while the other one kept on trucking, and it broke up their family. I am so grateful that's not the case in our situation. He said, "Are you scared?" I nodded yes, I am. "Me too," he said.
It's such a major goodbye, and one we'll never be able to make fully because of our families. Even if they didn't try continuously to "get us back" (and they will), they are all so wrapped up in it that we'll never get away from it.
One thing about myself that I'm not sure what to think of is that I'm easily swayed in either direction. I'll read a well thought out and well written ex-Mormon statement and think, "Yeah! Exactly!" but then read a Mormon's well thought out and well written argument and I end up conceding that they have a point, too.
I have to consider that the information I'm finding is still all second-hand. They site references, but I don't have access to those references - and until I do, I can never really know that their reproductions are fair and accurate.
I keep thinking that while there were some terrible things that supposedly happened early in the Church's history and Joseph Smith and Brigham Young supposedly weren't fully the men they're made out to be by the Church - I keep thinking that still, the Church is good today. I can't understand what motivation there would be to deceive. The only thing I can think of is how devastating it would be for the millions of active, faithful members if they were to have everything that they live for shown to be false - or not even false necessarily, just not entirely true or honorable.
And I can say that no matter what positive light I come across that's shed on JS or the Church, it always goes back to the contradictions for me. The gospel teaches that God is unchanging - that his laws are eternal and that he won't ever give a commandment without preparing a way to follow it. Then why in the hell aren't we practicing polygamy? The United Order? Why has the temple ceremony changed so much? Not to mention that JS completely defied his Twelfth Article of Faith ("We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law") by practicing polygamy.
I think of how my story will be told by my sister in church when she's crying about it to the sisters in Relief Society. "She's reading all this anti-Mormon literature, all this supposed factual history about the church. I asked her when the last time she'd been to the temple was and she said it had been a long time - well of course! She isn't close to the Spirit anymore. The adversary had an open door and got his hands on her."
Does Satan have his grip on us (Husband and me?) Are we supposing that we know more than God by going with men's reasoning? No...not really. Just looking at history. Just looking at different accounts of the things we've been taught about. True accounts? Well, they are supposedly the accounts of past authorities, even presidents/prophets of the Church.
But even if not? Like I said, if I'm honest with myself about even the history that the Church provides, if I'm looking at the contradictions - I can't bring myself to explain it away or justify it enough to move past it. I can't give the benefit of the doubt anymore.
I go back and forth between thinking "I don't want to go to church," and "I will miss it soo much. It's familiar and comfortable. My 2-year old loves it. I don't want to deal with the contention that's inevitable from the current, all-in members. I don't want them to think what they will of us. It would be easier to just go, accepting that it's a man-made institution, not accepting any callings that would press me to bear testimony that I don't have. After all, it's a good reminder, a good pusher to be better, improve, never become sedentary."
But how can I go and listen to the innocent, completely faithful and illogical accounts of history? The regurgitated testimonies of everyone, ages 3 to 90? Church has already been making me grumpy for as long as I've been going (not always, no, sometimes it's good, but with all my new information I'm not sure I can go without getting pissed off about everything, at every turn.)
I suspect that it will just be a gradual falling away. Husband teaches Sunday school to some of the teenagers, so unless he goes and says "I'm done," he has to continue to go each Sunday, at least for the middle hour. With my calling, I don't have to be there.
What I dread is the confrontation. "We haven't seen you at church in a while." At which point, I can't stand to make excuses and lie about it. So I'll have to say...what? What's the best way to say politely and kindly that it's not for me and I won't be attending anymore? I don't want to open up discussions, I don't want to be worked at and filed away at.
Especially because my aim is not to convince anyone else of my feelings. I want them to understand, but by no means would I try to make them agree with me. If they're happy in that world, wonderful. Good for you. Don't talk to me too much and you'll be just fine.
Last night, I was exhausted by all this and decided that instead of talking to my husband about it in bed, I would just read one of my favorite books until I was tired enough to fall asleep. When I closed Jane Eyre and turned to my husband (who was reading more discussions about church history on his phone) he gave me his attention. I didn't say anything, but we both understand that all of this is emotionally and mentally exhausting. It's sad. It's also really sad to think about leaving this community, this church "family" we have behind. It's been such a major part of our lives, especially Husband's, as he grew up in it with "all in" parents. Anyway, he looked at me and said, "I love you. I'm glad I have you," meaning, I think, he's glad he has me to go through this with. I agreed whole-heartedly - going through this alone would be even harder. We've seen examples now where one spouse decided it was untrue while the other one kept on trucking, and it broke up their family. I am so grateful that's not the case in our situation. He said, "Are you scared?" I nodded yes, I am. "Me too," he said.
It's such a major goodbye, and one we'll never be able to make fully because of our families. Even if they didn't try continuously to "get us back" (and they will), they are all so wrapped up in it that we'll never get away from it.
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